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This is where the Did you know section on the main page, its policies, and its processes can be discussed.

12-hour sets?

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WP:DYKNA currently has over 130 approved noms. Should we start doing 12-hour sets? – 🌻 Hilst (talk | contribs) 11:33, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This was discussed at Wikipedia talk:Did you know/Archive 202#Approaching 12-hour backlog mode? and Wikipedia talk:Did you know/Archive 203#WP:DYKUBM and the consensus was that we start when there are seven filled queues.--Launchballer 13:08, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, good to know. – 🌻 Hilst (talk | contribs) 13:14, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If two more preps are promoted in the next 20 hours—we have five queues filled and need seven—we will switch to 12-hour sets after midnight and continue for three days, after which we switch back. We actually have over 200 approved noms (202 to be precise): the 133 that are counted in the table, and another 69 that aren't transcluding on the Approved page and therefore aren't counted by the bot as being approved, because the bot can only count transcluded noms. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:56, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If this does happen, then my #Ceechynaa +1 hook will need to move. I put in a request that it run on the 29th, her birthday.--Launchballer 04:43, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's another GA backlog drive in January. Which means if we don't dig into our own backlog over the next few weeks, we'll be totally swamped by February. So, we need to get those queues filled. RoySmith (talk) 00:50, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
theleekycauldron any idea when PSHAW's queueing function could be opened up to us template editors as well as admins? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:30, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@AirshipJungleman29: yes! right now. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 17:45, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

January 5

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Hi. I nominated Rescatemos a David y Miguel for this date, and the nomination was approved on December 9. According to the established timeline, it should have been placed in Template:Did you know/Preparation area 5 by now, but it is still in the approved queue. In the past, I've missed similar nominations even when they were submitted within the established 6-week period. I understand that there are many hooks waiting to be posted before this one, but my main concern is that I've planned other articles for February and March that I won't need to nominate within the next three to six weeks due to the DYK rules, which could potentially apply to the same situation and I'd need to know if I'd have to nominated them even before the 6-week period. (CC) Tbhotch™ 06:25, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above comment is confusing, especially regarding the February/March aspect. Can you please clarify that matter?
As for the January 5 request, the current prep for that is Prep 5, which is already filled up, which means a hook will have to be bumped to later. Right now we already have almost all preps filled, and we're soon switching to two-sets a day temporarily, although I'm not sure if January 5 will be affected by that or not. In any case, depending on how things go, your request could still be fulfilled, but it also may be too impractical to follow. In such case, would you be okay if the request is not fulfilled? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:57, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

New Year

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As announced in an archived thread, I expanded a cantata article to GA to hopefully be presented on 1 January. Template:Did you know nominations/Jesu, nun sei gepreiset, BWV 41 is ready for review and consideration. We talk again about a 300 years anniversary. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:32, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Prep 2 is already filled up and ready to go, so I don't think it likely that the nom will get approval and be swapped in on such short notice, unfortunately. ~Darth StabroTalk • Contribs 17:59, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The miracle happened for yesterday, and I announced this to come when I announced the other on 20 December, so it's not really short notice. I felt I was already pushing the GA reviewer, and I didn't want to make the same mistake as in the other case, nominate for DYK before GA was through. - You and anybody willing: you could simply review this, and then discuss if we should present a New Years cantata perhaps some day in February. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:06, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please reserve a space for 6 January. No, not another chorale cantata, just a 290 years anniversary of a famous piece, and I don't know yet if I'll manage expanding. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:34, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
These short notice requests can be impractical and a hassle to prep builders, especially now that we're approaching two-sets a day and special occasion requests can become even more of a hassle (see #12-hour sets? above) . There is a reason why it's usually recommended not to request a special occasion request if it's less than a week out. The suggestion would be, if you want to have a special occasion hook, to nominate the articles far in advance, to give time for reviewers to check and double-check. After all, it's not uncommon for noms to be brought up here for re-checking, and very tight time requirements could affect article/hook/set quality. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:53, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are holidays, there's real life. Reviewing a fresh GA should be easier than something that nobody reviewed before. I requested a free slot - no more because I couldn't know if I'd manage GA at all - on 21 December which is 11 days in advance in my math. Forget 6 January. I won't get to it. There's real life. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:18, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In this case, nobody needs to sacrifice a hook, because I have one in that set (Q1, by User:Crisco 1492) that I don't want there: Bunt sind schon die Wälder, for several reasons:
  1. The date is wrong. It's a fall song, with a little melancholy that summer is over, not a starting point, - the sentiment is wrong for the start of the year, on top of the season.
  2. I don't like the hook, as explained at length in the nom more than once. I won't repeat it here.
Can we please try to review the cantata article, to have instead something related to the date and the spirit? Perhaps we should archive the other because the next time it would fit will be in September. I had already unwatched, having given it up, - sorry about that. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:41, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nevermind, happy new year to all loking here! - We have the fall hook on the Main page right now (which looks thoughtless to me, sorry), and 24 hours on OTD will be better for the cantata than twelve on DYK. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:52, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Queue 1

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John Green (basketball) (nom)

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Personally, I don't understand much of the hook and thus don't appreciate why it's interesting; would like others' opinions to whether I'm alone in that. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:47, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Have to agree on this one. The hook says he was only the top scorer in one of those 12 Final Four teams, which is still impressive but probably not broadly interesting enough for DYK's purposes. The hook is in Queue 1 which is currently scheduled for January 1, so this will need either a bumping off or a pull. There might still be potential in the "leading scorer" angle, but probably not with the current wording. Maybe some of the following suggestions would work?
  • ... that John Green was the UCLA Bruins' leading scorer during the 1961–62 season, in which they reached the Final Four for the first time?
  • ... that John Green, who was once drafted by the Los Angeles Lakers, later worked in banking and real estate?
Also pinging nominator Bagumba, reviewer RecycledPixels and promoter Crisco 1492 regarding this discussion. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:08, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Most non-sports fans should be somewhat familiar with the concept of a leading scorer, and "Final Four" is linked. The more interesting part for a basketball fan would be the linkage to John Wooden. Would it be more accessible to explicitly mention that the coach is a Hall of Famer? —Bagumba (talk) 15:55, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Probably not. When we write hooks, we aim for the broadest possible audience, not the narrowest one. If the hook is mainly intended to appeal to basketball fans, at the expense of everyone else, that's not a good hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 16:27, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For the record, the article ended running with the original hook and was viewed 2,527 times. Up to editors if that's okay or not okay. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:59, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
For the record, it was also only a 12-hr run. As for the original complaint of "don't understand much of the hook", many hooks are of minimal interest or even foreign to those outside the domain, but those curious about a hook with "leading" and "first" mentioned will sometimes click to learn. That some "don't understand" should not necessarily be a showstopper, and is anyways probably mostly a given. —Bagumba (talk) 12:37, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Cultural impact of Dragon Ball (nom)

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@Di (they-them), Pofka, and Crisco 1492: unless I'm missing something, the wording "Latino icon" only appears in the headline of this LA Times article, which is not a reliable source per WP:HEADLINES. Little bit of workshopping needed? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:47, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Personally, an appellation in a headline is still calling someone something; WP:HEADLINES is more for objective fact than subjective identification, by the looks of things. If we want to pick nits, The Washington Post quotes the title of the essay in its body. We could also use "saint", which is in the body of both the LA Times article and the Washington Post.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 14:54, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @AirshipJungleman29: Hi, Goku is called as "Latino icon" in other sources too: The Washington Post and USA Today, so these two sources probably should be added as references to the article for better verifiability. Overall, I think Goku's popularity in Latin America and the usage of this nickname is not a doubtful fact. -- Pofka (talk) 16:37, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Chrystal (musician) (nom)

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Launchballer, the article has been tagged as an orphan, which you may wish to address before the main page appearance. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:47, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Added a link from Co-op Academy North Manchester.--Launchballer 15:10, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Straight-tusked elephant (nom)

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Hemiauchenia, per WP:DYKHFC, the hook fact in the article needs an end-of-sentence citation. Wonderful article, though; FA quality to my biologically-inexpert eye. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:47, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@AirshipJungleman29: Done. [1] Hemiauchenia (talk) 14:57, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Queue 2

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Mountain Landscape

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@Hilst, Viriditas, and Sahaib: The article doesn't contain the words "immersive" or "luminosity". Hooks don't always have to contain direct quotes from the article, but given that this is an aesthetic opinion, and these words have specific meanings in the art world, I think we need to stick to exactly what Hertzlieb said. RoySmith (talk) 14:58, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:AESTHETIC is relevant here. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:52, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think I paraphrased the quote using those terms, but if you disagree go ahead and pull it, as I don’t think using an exact quote changes anything at all. I would rather offer a new hook as I dislike using a quote, and generally do so as a last resort. Also, the image is a poor one which is why I did not originally add one to the hook. So I would rather pull it at this point and replace it with a simpler one with no image. I think that space should be reserved for good images and this is not one of them. Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 16:27, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Austrogynacantha heterogena male hindwing
Austrogynacantha heterogena male hindwing
I do agree that it's not a great image (which, I suppose is exactly the point of the hook) and I also agree that we should be running our best images. I'm thinking Antiquiala has a great image (but not the one included in the nom) so I suggest we use that and go with:
... that the Washington state dragonfly Antiquiala was described from a single wing (pictured)?
for the lead hook. RoySmith (talk) 16:38, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@RoySmith and AirshipJungleman29: ALT2 "... that a Mountain Landscape is difficult to capture with photography, according to its former curator?"
Playful wording is intentional. I would prefer to shorten it to just "that a Mountain Landscape is difficult to capture with photography"? Viriditas (talk) 16:47, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's a pretty good hook. – 🌻 Hilst (talk | contribs) 16:50, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I've gone ahead and made the swap/mods. RoySmith (talk) 17:03, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! Viriditas (talk) 17:07, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@RoySmith and Viriditas: the image you grabbed from Antiquiala is NOT of the fossil though, which is why I did not propose it for the nomination. This is a living related species (Austrogynacantha heterogena) used to illustrate the wing vein architecture of the fossil, it can NOT go to the main page with that image being presented as the fossil.--Kevmin § 18:28, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh my, in fixing this problem, I managed to create a different mess. The image I used for the lead is not the right species, as pointed out on Talk:Antiquiala. So I'm going to back out my changes to the queue and figure out a different fix. RoySmith (talk) 18:27, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've replaced this with 1991 Andover tornado from Prep 5. Hopefully without screwing anything else up. RoySmith (talk) 18:47, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@RoySmith: Does having both a tornado hook and a hailstorm hook in the same set not break DYKVAR? – 🌻 Hilst (talk | contribs) 21:55, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sigh. You may be right, but I'll leave that up to somebody else to fix if they feel it's worth fixing. RoySmith (talk) 23:42, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2019 Timaru hailstorm

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@Hilst, Panamitsu, and EF5: The article talks about how much insurance was paid. That's not quite the same as how much damage was done. There could be damage which wasn't covered by insurance. RoySmith (talk) 15:04, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've edited the hook accordingly. – 🌻 Hilst (talk | contribs) 16:49, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shō Sen'i

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@Hilst, Generalissima, and AlphaBetaGamma: The article says "Modern historians have attributed his short reign instead to a coup d'état". That got turned into the unequivocal "was overthrown in favor of" in the hook. RoySmith (talk) 15:18, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, I completely forgot about that. Just throwing in "may have been" would resolve that I think Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 15:37, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Of course I fail to notice the issue even when I read through the article to make sure there's no issues with the hook... Thanks for the heads up (and fixing the ping template, although I was busy yesterday) ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 00:05, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sing-Song Girl Red Peony

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@Hilst, Crisco 1492, and GreenLipstickLesbian: Oh, come on folks. "China's first sound film"? Really? The article even says "has been considered ..." and then goes on to give a counter-example, i.e. a different film which also has claim to being the first. RoySmith (talk) 15:25, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Older nominations needing DYK reviewers

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The previous list was archived a few hours ago, so I've created a new list of all 30 nominations that need reviewing in the Older nominations section of the Nominations page, covering everything through December 20. We have a total of 283 nominations, of which 190 have been approved, a gap of 93 nominations that has increased by 6 over the past 5 days. Thanks to everyone who reviews these and any other nominations!

More than one month old

Other nominations

Please remember to cross off entries, including the date, as you finish reviewing them (unless you're asking for further review), even if the review was not an approval. Please do not remove them entirely. Many thanks! BlueMoonset (talk) 21:08, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Prep building

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I'd like to try promoting a hook or two. I've read WP:DYKPBR and WP:DYKPROMO. Could somebody please mentor me? I feel too nervous to try it alone. ―Panamitsu (talk) 22:15, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sure Panamitsu. The actual edits are straightforward with WP:PSHAW; the difficulty is making sure the nominations meet the criteria, and remembering some of the more obscure prep-building rules, mostly found at places like WP:DYKVAR, WP:DYKIMG, or WP:DYKMOS. Once you've done a couple, you'll wonder why ever you were nervous. If you promote one or two to the final prep set (currently 4 but it could change by the time you read this), ping me and I'll look them over. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:42, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! ―Panamitsu (talk) 21:18, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tellus (app)

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  • ... that while Tellus packages together cash from multiple consumer depositors to make real-estate loans, and is not FDIC-insured, it states that it does not offer mortgage-backed securities to consumers?

I understand the reviewer overturned the objections I raised at the nomination page, but the hook as currently written is probably not suitable. It is 199 characters long (just one character under the limit), and while the nominator said trimming was difficult and the reviewer said one was not needed, the hook is probably still too complicated and long. In addition, the hook is also US-centric (most readers outside the US do not know what the FDIC means, let alone what "FDIC-insured" means). The hook also arguably fails WP:DYKINT due to being reliant on somewhat specialist information (specifically finance-related information that can be rather complicated). This does not mean the article can't be featured on DYK, of course, just that the promoted hook was not the best option.

Given that Prep 5 is going to be promoted to Queue in a few days, I've bumped it for now to Prep 2 to buy more time for discussion and workshopping. If this isn't resolved soon this may need to be pulled back to DYKN for more work.

Courtesy pings to the nom Red-tailed hawk, reviewer Storye book, and promoter AirshipJungleman29. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:35, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I looked, knowing nothing about financial companies. The hook makes me want to know more because I don't understand it exactly, - isn't that what is demanded from a good hook? I see that the nominator gave a detailed explanation of why the FDIC clause is relevant, and while I have no time to read it all, I would simply respect it. Can we have a link there, perhaps? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:55, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) There are times when it is prudent to list verifiable facts (which the hook does) and not replace those facts with your own opinions (which a simplification would have to be), otherwise you would find yourself on the wrong end of a legal situation. So that hook has been very carefully worded in terms which have a clear meaning in financial and legal terms, which makes the hook clear, concise and to the point. If you were to rephrase any of those terms for purposes of explanation, that rephrasing would of necessity be longer than the original financial terms.
Tellus loans money to real-estate buyers, who pay back the loans with extra cash called interest. At the same time, Tellus gets its loaning-out money by using people's savings. Tellus gets its hands on those savings because people deposit their savings with Tellus in return for extra money called interest. And so it goes round and round. So, in that arrangement, everybody should get richer, so long as the real-estate buyers remain rich enough to (1) repay their loans and (2) pay interest to Tellus on the loans. Now, can you see where the hitch might be?
In a national financial crash (Wall Street being subject to booms, busts, panics and all) Tellus would be caught like a juggler of Ming vases, with all its treasure in the air and no safety net. That is to say, Tellus has no appropriate insurance because, not being a bank, it is not allowed to have FDIC insurance, and it does not back its dealings with assets like mortgage-backed securities. (A security is something that you give people potential access to if they don't trust you). Therefore Tellus is based on risk, like the uninsured teenager who borrows his dad's car, or the gym teacher who has kids doing tightrope walking over a hard floor without a safety net. The risk being run by Tellus is a run on its assets (a "run" is people queueing around the block to get their investment money back, but the doors being locked because the money is gone). But it hasn't got much in the way of assets because it has all its balls in the air, so to speak. And it hasn't got insurance. This one could be interesting, come the next crash. Well, that is how I see it as an ordinary layman. Though no doubt Red-tailed hawk will correct my wilder assumptions, I suspect that a wise investor would not invest in Tellus.
Now - do you see just how clear, concise and to-the-point that hook is? The phrase, "is not FDIC-insured" should start the alarm bells ringing, and our readers can look up the rest. Storye book (talk) 11:03, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The issue is probably hard to explain on my end, but it basically boils down to "the hook is not easily understandable to people who may not be that well-versed in finance", whether in real-life or on Wikipedia. The explanation you give is actually pretty hard to parse for a layperson, and I imagine many readers would feel the same. There's a solution of course: go with a different angle (there were other proposed hooks in the nomination).
In any case, the real-life activities of Tellus are not relevant to the discussion here: the question is if the hook as currently written meets WP:DYKINT or not (i.e. if it is a hook that is "likely to be perceived as unusual or intriguing by readers with no special knowledge or interest"). The answer here is, with some exceptions, likely to be no. The primary concern is DYKINT, with conciseness being a secondary issue that contributes to DYKINT but is not necessarily the main issue itself. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:22, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that it is too hard to understand - I still don't understand how the first and second facts pertain to the third after reading it several times. Surely a less technical hook could be found? Gatoclass (talk) 13:41, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What part of "is not ... insured" do you not understand? Just because you don't understand it, it doesn't mean that the millions of real-estate purchasers (i.e. anyone purchasing a house or land by taking a loan) out there will not understand it. For anyone who takes a quick glance at the above hook, having invested in Tellus, that uninsured bit will jump out.at them. If part of a hook rings alarm bells, you don't need to understand the rest (bearing in mind that the article will explain it if you click).
Firstly, only Americans, and probably only Americans with financial nous, will know what "FDIC insurance" even is. Secondly, there are lots of investments that are not insured - otherwise my share portfolio would look a lot healthier. Thirdly, as I said, there is no clear connection between the first two facts and the third, so the hook is basically just a puzzle,
There are several other hooks on the nomination page that look viable, why not go with one of them instead? Gatoclass (talk) 14:04, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) I think there's a fundamental difference in understanding here regarding the issue. The issue is if a broad audience, in this case a layperson, will understand the hook or not. The hook, as Gatoclass brought up above, is very technical (or in DYK-speak, specialist), and is probably not going to be easily understood by the average reader. It doesn't matter if it will "ring alarm bells". DYK is not meant to be a warning, or the place to post such warmings. You seem well-versed in the topic but you need to understand that not everyone else is, and the understanding needed to get the hook and find it interesting is probably only a small minority of readers. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:06, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If part of the issue is that the FDIC is relatively unknown outside of the United States, then one could modify the hook to have FDIC. But I do appreciate the perspective from Gerda (a non-U.S. person) and Storye book that this would be more broadly interesting and understandable to a global audience than NLH5 has argued. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 16:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How about:

That includes all the significant bits in fewer words. RoySmith (talk) 16:45, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Or if there is a way of rephrasing "FDIC-insured" to a less US-specific description. I think the term mortgage-backed securities have been sufficiently enshrined in the worldwide consciousness, more so than the countless hooks we run with obscure US sport terminology, at least. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:06, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To be honest, a lot of people may not even know what "mortgage" or "security" means, so while removing the mention of FDIC might help, I still have concerns that we should be running this angle at all. It also doesn't seem to address Gatoclass's concern regarding how it's not that clear that one leads to another. Can't we just go with another a completely different angle rather than trying to workshop this? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:44, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You've dropped it three preps so we have time for "discussion and workshopping" Narutolovehinata5, now you say that we shouldn't bother? If people have forgotten a key element of the greatest economic crisis since WWII in 15 years, I have concerns for the human race. I'd bet that awareness of the term is much higher than whatever "transmitter tubes" (Queue 7), a "Final Four team", or "a report from AT&T" (Queue 1) mean, none of which I personally understand. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 01:24, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Frankly, I am a bit upset by the use of WP:ROLLBACK in Special:Diff/1265975666, since it doesn't appear to meet WP:ROLLBACKUSE and it appears to be using the tool in furtherance of a content dispute. I'd strongly urge Narutolovehinata5 to self-revert as this discussion continues. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 01:30, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Meh. Rollback is the easiest way to revert multiple edits in one click. Yes, there's societal norms about when it's appropriate to use the rollback link (as detailed in WP:ROLLBACKUSE, and yes, N5 violated those norms, but in the scheme of things, that's always struck me as a rather petty thing to worry about. RoySmith (talk) 01:56, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The lack of an edit summary is the issue. —Bagumba (talk) 06:23, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In hindsight, I probably should have just used Twinkle rather than vanilla RB. I completely forgot that RB doesn't have edit summaries. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Discussion and workshopping" was referring to the hook, and if it doesn't work out, it can be replaced. Maybe I just worded my thoughts badly, but the point is I'm not convinced that said angle is the best option among the possible options in the article. If consensus decides to go with it, so be it, I just personally don't think it's the best option. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:09, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I can see somebody not understanding what "security" means in this context, but I think the vast majority of readers will know what a mortgage is. They may not understand the details, but certainly they should get "it's how you borrow money to buy a house". RoySmith (talk) 02:01, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A link to deposit insurance, perhaps? But that page is a bit of a disaster sourcing-wise. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 22:45, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ALT2 from the nom is still available. It isn't the greatest hook out there, but among the choices offered it probably is the one that was the most accessible. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:49, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that ALT2 would be fine. I can't imagine anyone not understanding ALT2.
I should add that my above interpretation of ALT3 does not come from specialist knowledge. I'm just intelligent. Intelligence doesn't mean having a better brain than anyone else (I don't believe that anyone has that), or having a privileged education or background. Intelligence is about being curious for knowledge, and about making an effort to understand things. .If there are people among our readers who can't be bothered to click on a hook to find out what a word means, then those people are in the minority. Our readers are looking at Wikipedia, aren't they. That means they are curious to know things. Being curious to know things means you are intelligent. So please give our readers some credit for not being lazy fools. Storye book (talk) 10:12, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Some people seem very attached to the FDIC hook, evidently because they believe it will serve as a warning to potential investors. I'm inclined to think that anybody needing investment advice from DYK hooks has money management issues well beyond anything a DYK hook can fix.
Regardless, I still think the FDIC hook doesn't manage to get the "risk" aspect across terribly well - ALT1 seems better in that regard to me, ie:
* ALT1: ... that 68% of funds lent by Tellus between April and December 2023 were given to affiliates of one real estate investment firm to invest in Silicon Valley housing?
Having said that, the RoySmith version at least has the virtue of being concise, even if the point of it is still lost on me (and therefore, presumably, many others). But given my general disinterest in the topic, I'm not going to insist that I am right and others are wrong. I've had my say along with the others in this thread, so perhaps it's time to stand aside and let somebody uninvolved make the choice. Gatoclass (talk) 06:40, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have particular attachment to the FDIC hook, beyond my dismay at how we are assessing the general public's knowledge of the most important organization in the global banking system (save, say, the Federal Reserve). — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 22:55, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Given how no consensus has been reached regarding what hook to use, I've gone ahead and pulled it back to DYKN to allow an uninvolved editor to decide. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:04, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Prius Missile

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Hello, the nominator has gone above and beyond fixing the problem over at Template:Did you know nominations/Prius Missile, and I've passed it, but they are currently on a self-imposed wikibreak (they had an admin temporarily block them so they can focus on other things). I think ALT3 and ALT5 could be good to go (but need some minor grammar work), but I think ideally a new ALT6 would be best based on my comments in the review. If anyone is interested in Japan, Toyota, or car culture in general, I would appreciate your help in coming up with a new hook. Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 23:24, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have superseded the tick since there isn't an approved hook at the moment, and moved the nom back to the Nominations page. I hope a new hook can be proposed and approved soon. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:04, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nom needs restoration to queue

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Template:Did you know nominations/Retelling. It was pulled due to minor errors, without a ping to me or the reviewer. Fortunately, the reviewer noticed and ping me; I've addressed the issues, pinged people a while back, but nobody came to restore it, so I am posting this here. TIA. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:54, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It was restored before I got there. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:01, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, anonymous fixer.
Resolved
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:15, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Queue 3

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This is my first time moving a prep to queue, so sorry if I've missed anything.

Paora

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I promoted this hook, so someone else should check this one. – 🌻 Hilst (talk | contribs) 14:56, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good to me.--Launchballer 15:25, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Austin Staats

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@SammySpartan, RoySmith, and Crisco 1492: There are no sources in the article that verify the hook. Also, there's a lot of proseline in the last few paragraphs of the article. – 🌻 Hilst (talk | contribs) 14:56, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Article has "Playing at OOC, Staats had back-to-back breakout seasons in 2017 and 2018, where he totaled 156 points and helped the team go undefeated, winning the NJCAA national championship and earning All-America honors in both years", but you're right that it doesn't seem to fully support the hook fact.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 15:09, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I remember looking at this during review and decided that if the team went undefeated then each player must also have gone undefeated, so I'm good with it. RoySmith (talk) 15:44, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As Long as You're Mine

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@Bogger, MaranoFan, and Premeditated Chaos: I'm not sure about the sources for this hook. The Cambridge source seems reliable, but it doesn't state that the 1970s version was the "basic tune". musicalschwartz.com is a primary source, and Musical Theatre Review seems to be a blog (which allows people to advertise their shows and buy news features for £50!) – 🌻 Hilst (talk | contribs) 14:56, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

From the Cambridge source, "Elphabas theme, associated with her 'wickedness', which opens the show... Schwartz took it from the song 'As Long As You’re Mine'", so if you want to change "basic tune for ...", to something like "Elphaba's theme in..." in the hook? -Bogger
The book the website cites is pretty clear: "Schwartz would associate several themes with Elphaba. One possible leitmotif had already turned up out of his “trunk” of unused music. After reading Wicked the novel, he sat at his piano penciling out song fragments, and remembered a 1971 pop melody that he had composed for a song about romantic partners stuck in a complicated, unsatisfying relationship. But while he never did anything with the song, he says, “I always liked this tune a lot.” Then when thinking about a duet for Elphaba and Fiyero’s romantic scene in Act II, he wrote new lyrics for this melody, changed the bridge, and thereby created “As Long As You’re Mine,” a love song set in a troubling time." I've swapped the cite in the article, that ought to suffice to not require changes. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 21:34, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That works for me. – 🌻 Hilst (talk | contribs) 22:17, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Prep 5 (now Queue 5)

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This is short one hook. If somebody could fill that in, I'll promote it to queue.

Fictional planets of the Solar System

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@Theleekycauldron, TompaDompa, and PrimalMustelid: The title of the article (and thus the wording of the image caption) is misleading. Some of these are indeed fictional in the sense of "made up for entertainment purposes", but others were hypothesized as legitimate science that just turned out to be wrong. I see that @RandomCritic made exactly this point at the 2018 AfD, yet we seem to have lumped both fictional and hypothetical into an article whose title ostensibly claims it's only about fictional. Also @Crisco 1492 who did the recent GA review. RoySmith (talk) 16:05, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • The article is about their treatment in fiction, whether that's where the concept of the planet originated or not. I think the article makes this rather clear (often but not always corresponding to hypothetical planets that have at one point or another been seriously proposed by real-world astronomers and whatnot). It's not terribly different from mistaken ideas about real planets appearing in fiction (e.g. Martian canals as a feature of Mars in fiction). I suppose the title could be changed to a "[...] in fiction" format such as Fictitious planets of the Solar System in fiction or Imaginary planets of the Solar System in fiction or even Additional planets of the Solar System in fiction, but I don't think that's self-evidently an improvement. If it's just about the image caption (Orbits of some fictional planets of the Solar System), the word "fictional" there could trivially be changed to "fictitious". TompaDompa (talk) 16:41, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's mostly about the image caption. My first reaction was, "WTF, Jupiter isn't a fictional planet, nor are Mars, Earth, Venus, or Mercury". Then I looked closer and saw the caption was only talking about the three on the other side in green, but as I read the article it became apparent that "fictional" didn't really apply to them either. Just changing the caption to say "fictitious" doesn't fix that. I like the image, but I think it needs a better caption. RoySmith (talk) 16:47, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    "Fictitious" means "not real" both in a fiction and non-fiction sense, though. So do "imaginary" and "made-up", though with somewhat different connotations and a less formal tone. Anyway, the original caption was Schematic diagram of the orbits of the fictional planets Vulcan, Counter-Earth, and Phaëton in relation to the five innermost planets of the Solar System., which I'm guessing was cut for length. I'm unsure what the limit on the caption length is, but something like "Orbits of three imaginary and five real planets of the Solar System" could be an alternative. TompaDompa (talk) 17:00, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sonya Friedman (translator)

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@AirshipJungleman29, Silver seren, and CurryTime7-24: This could be enhanced with the usual biographical data like date of birth, education, family, etc. And an {{infobox person}}. But that's not a DYK requirement, so it won't hold us up, just something to consider for future work. RoySmith (talk) 16:23, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also @Gerda Arendt you'll probably be interested in this one. RoySmith (talk) 16:25, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have any of that information. If anyone else can find it, feel free to add it to the article. SilverserenC 05:43, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Papa (2024 film)

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@AirshipJungleman29, Prince of Erebor, and Crisco 1492: just a nit: "cotton-tree" is hyphenated in the hook but not in the aritcle. Pick one and be consistent. RoySmith (talk) 16:31, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@RoySmith: The hook I originally proposed follows the article and is not hyphenated. AirshipJungleman29, may I ask why a hyphen was added during the promotion and which version do you think is better? —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 17:00, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ravenpuff added the hyphen. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:26, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A hyphen is useful here as per MOS:HYPHEN, but I concede it isn't absolutely necessary, so feel free to remove it if you prefer. — RAVENPVFF · talk · 02:44, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, I understand now! The hyphen was added because it functions as a single adjective before the noun it modifies. I trust your judgment that using the hyphen is the better choice in this case. Thanks for the copyedit, Ravenpuff! —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 07:22, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Canaanite ivory comb

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@AirshipJungleman29, Flibirigit, Raydann, and Z1720: The source says written in the Canaanite language, which got turned into written in a phonetic alphabet which isn't the same thing. RoySmith (talk) 22:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Queue 6

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Amalberga of Temse

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@Figureskatingfan, Grnrchst, and AirshipJungleman29:

  • ... that Saint Amalberga of Temse (pictured) is the patron saint of upper-limb injuries, because of the legend that Charlemagne broke her arm while trying to force her to marry him?

I cannot find in the article where it states that she is the patron saint of upper-limb injuries because of this legend. Can someone quote the text where this is stated, or add it more explicitly to the article? Thanks, Z1720 (talk) 21:32, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Z1720, added the info to the final sentence of the article, as per your request. Thanks, happy New Year. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 23:30, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

St Bride's Church, Mauku

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@Traumnovelle, Soman, and AirshipJungleman29:

  • ... that St Bride's Church still has loopholes from use as a military outpost in the 19th century?

I cannot find this fact in the sourced used to verify this fact. Can someone quote where this is stated in the source, or use another source to verify this? Z1720 (talk) 21:43, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

'The external walls still have the loopholes cut in during the military scare of 1863.' Traumnovelle (talk) 22:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's a subpage titled "Detailed List Entry" you need to click on. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:50, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

12-hour mode

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We've got seven queues filled now and 136 approved nominations, so per WP:DYKROTATE (note g), I think it's time to go to 12 hour mode. If nobody objects in the next couple of hours, I'll make the switch right after midnight. RoySmith (talk) 22:08, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:52, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My hook (Gohobi) is in Prep 7. I'm not sure if it will be affected by DYKROTATE, but given how it took a while to be reviewed and I don't have hooks running on DYK often, I'd rather it not be in a set that will only run for 12 hours. Will Prep 7 be affected by this? If not, that's okay, but if it will, would it be okay if it be bumped to the first non-12 hour hook set? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:24, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think it is a good idea to accommodate requests like this: there are lots of editors who have worked hard on their articles and would rather that they run in 24-hour sets, and it would be difficult to accommodate all of them. Even worse, it would mean that editors "in the know" at DYK would request their hooks running in 24 hour cycles, bumping newer editors to the 12-hour sets because they do not know about DYK's bureaucracy. Z1720 (talk) 23:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm with Z1720. RoySmith (talk) 23:34, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I understand that, it's just that in the past I didn't make many nominations, and whenever they did end up being approved and running, it often coincided with 12-hour periods, so there was a time when most of my noms ended up running in 12-hour sets even when those sets were not the norm. It might not be a big deal for other noms who have frequent noms and thus don't get this issue. In any case, based on my calculation, I think Queue 1 will be the first to be affected, so Prep 7 would just be outside and won't be affected, I was just making sure. And I don't mind if the request isn't granted regardless, it was just a thought. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:36, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As it happens, the just-promoted Queue 7 was the first of the six 12-hour sets, and the current Queue 5 will be the last of them. We'll go back to 24-hour sets starting with Queue 6, unless a huge amount of work is done to full lots of preps and promote an average of two a day to queues over the next three days. I'd expect it to take several days to get back to seven filled queues... BlueMoonset (talk) 05:19, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Unrelated to above, but the Revelation of the Magi hook will need to be bumped given that it's a special occasion request for January 6. If there are any other special occasion hooks then they will also need shuffling. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:39, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's 6 sets away, so let's hold off on that until after the switch. RoySmith (talk) 23:45, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Done. We run this way for three days. After the 0000 Jan 3 (UTC) update, we should revert back to one per day, or at least evaluate if we still meet the criteria to continue in two per day mode. RoySmith (talk) 00:53, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's after the switch, so the Revelation of the Magi hook should be bumped from Queue 6 to Prep 2 so it can run on Epiphany (January 6). (Maybe switch the quirky hook in Prep 2 with this one in Queue 6?) Someone might also want to add a comment to the Revelation hook to note that it is a special occasion hook for January 6, in case we end up starting another three-day 12-hour group before it runs. It really helps when special occasion hooks are labeled as such! Also, congratulations to the folks who promoted all those preps to queues to allow this to happen! BlueMoonset (talk) 05:11, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Done. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:22, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Repeat nomination: Frankish Tower?

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I'm afraid I cannot find this in the instructions, or the previous discussions which I know we've had on the topic -- where do things stand as regards repeat nominations? Frankish Tower (Acropolis of Athens) just made GA today. I was hoping to nominate it for DYK when I found that it had already run in 2014. UndercoverClassicist T·C 22:30, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Second paragraph of WP:DYKNEW; it ran more than five years ago so a repeat nomination is welcome. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:52, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Aha, thank you. Purely practically, do you know how to set it up? The usual form doesn't work, because the page title is "taken". Do we do e.g. Template:Did you know nominations/Frankish Tower (Acropolis of Athens)/2? UndercoverClassicist T·C 23:32, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's no "official" or "standard" format for titles for repeat nominations, especially when the concept is still new (the change that allowed them was only done earlier this year and there haven't been that many such noms yet). However, usually noms usually go with "[nominated article] 2" or "[nominated article] (2nd nomination)". I personally prefer the latter due to precision since the former could be ambiguous and the "2" could be misinterpreted as being part of the title. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:41, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How strict is the five year rule? I want to review the GAN Jane Fonda's Workout, but I don't want to hamper its ability to appear on DYK for a second time. It last appeared on DYK on 25 September 2020, and if I review it now, it probably wouldn't be nominated until the first week of January 2025. I realize that's under the bar, but would it be accepted for DYK? Viriditas (talk) 23:50, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The rule is still new and repeat nominations are still uncommon, so there's still a lot of uncharted territory. I imagine IAR exemptions would be liberally granted to nominations created just under the five year rule (for example, last run was February 2020 and it is nominated January 2025) since given backlogs are long enough that the five-year limit will no longer apply anyway by the time they actually run. As for your scenario above, given that there's a several months long gap, I imagine that would be less likely to apply, but it might be worth discussing with the article expander if they are okay with a second run on DYK, or if it's okay if it doesn't run again. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:54, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have asked the nominator to consider withdrawing for nine months. I doubt they will do that, but it's worth a try. Viriditas (talk) 09:45, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Likewise, although the standard time limit is seven days since the article was created or moved to mainspace, we allow an extension by a day or two by request. I also prefer "(2nd nomination)" because that's the format used on AfDs. Because the rule was recently implemented to allow reruns, I bet there's an oversight on some who forgot that articles that previously featured on DYK have accidentally appeared twice, likely because the title was different from the first to second nomination. In short, I remember 7 days/1500 characters as the requirement for the article. JuniperChill (talk) 11:11, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Great stuff. I've made Template:Did you know nominations/Frankish Tower (Acropolis of Athens) (2nd nomination), which I think will work correctly? UndercoverClassicist T·C 11:43, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Queue 4

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Marie-Thérèse Eyquem (nom)

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@Dudhhr, CaptainAngus, and Crisco 1492: I can't find where the article states she was the first woman to be appointed a national secretary. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:20, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

An Amorous History of the Silver Screen: Shanghai Cinema, 1896–1937 (nom)

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I promoted this, so someone else will have to check it. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:20, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Flora Hommel (nom)

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@Lajmmoore, CaptainAngus, and Crisco 1492: "despite" sounds odd in this sentence, wouldn't something like "after" be better? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:20, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Lajmmoore and Crisco 1492:, to me, the word "despite" underscores the core fact of this DYK. If I'm scared of heights, and go on to teach skydiving... I did that 'despite' my fear. :) But, I think "after" works as well, so I'm fine if you think that's the better word choice. CaptainAngus (talk) 14:57, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that "despite" is the wrong word here. I've changed it to "after". RoySmith (talk) 15:05, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Queue 7

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The Heart Knows Its Own Bitterness

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@ProfGray: while not disqualifying for DYK, I recommend that the yellow "overly lengthy quotes" tag at the top of the article be resolved. I think the "Text of the sugya" can be replaced with commentary or analysis of the text to help the reader understand its purpose in the article. Z1720 (talk) 15:46, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kurt Burris

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@Cbl62, ThaesOfereode, and AirshipJungleman29: I have added a citation needed tag for the first paragraph in "Oklahoma Sooners". Z1720 (talk) 15:51, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The King of Comedy Visits Shanghai

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@Crisco 1492, Kingoflettuce, and AirshipJungleman29: WP:DYKCOMPLETE says the article should be reasonably complete. This article's "Premise" section is quite short. Can this section be expanded upon, with some explanation of the highlights of this film? If this is not possible (because it is a lost film) can that lack of information be explained in the article? Z1720 (talk) 15:54, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • The sources quite literally don't provide a plot summary. He came, he did funny things. Several gags are identified based on advertising material, but their relation vis-a-vis each other is not clear; we can't say for certain, for example, that the baby on the oxcart came before or after "Chaplin" doing the splits between cars while talking with two beautiful women. Although I can certainly surmise a logical progression, it would be WP:OR. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 16:23, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Crisco 1492: I think the gags can still be outlined, even if the chronological order is unknown. Instead, the premise section can outline that the following gags/segments are known from the advertisements developed for the film. Z1720 (talk) 19:21, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Happy New Year!

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While it won't be 2025 yet in Wikipedia time for another 8 hours, I'd like to wish the community a happy new year. Cheers to great hooks and great nominations! Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 16:10, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Page warring

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Influencer was recently moved to Social Media Influencer (12/28) and back to Influencer (12/31). It was promoted to prep 3 in the middle of the changes. The content is not too dynamic, but should we maybe let this settle for a week or so before running it?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 10:03, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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