Talk:Shepherd's pie

Names in lead

This edit re-adds the text "in its French version" to the lead, characterizing the name "hachis Parmentier", with the comment "per sources". What exactly is the point of that phrase? Which sources claim that hachis Parmentier is different from shepherd's pie or cottage pie? It is simply the French name for the same dish, and is used in English sources as well as in French. For example, Dishy Stories" by Ian Grierson says "it is French cottage pie".[1]. --Macrakis (talk) 13:41, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Point entirely taken, but all the same just "hachis Parmentier" without some preliminary introduction looks a bit odd to me. Tim riley talk 14:36, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

It's just an alternate name, which happens to be French. The same way we have both rocket and arugula or burnt cream and crème brûlée. --Macrakis (talk) 18:49, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Absolutely fair enough. I'd prefer the prefatory words but I don't make a fuss about it. Tim riley talk 18:57, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 July 2024

Add to Category:Irish-American cuisine. 2600:6C50:7E00:316:6889:61F7:2917:C84A (talk) 11:24, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not mentioned in the article's body. M.Bitton (talk) 20:00, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

So, I just wandered by because I happened to be thinking about shepherd's pie. It seems rather astonishing that this article requires semi-protection. I trust that other editors are right in protecting it, but how controversial can the subject be? CAVincent (talk) 13:16, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Check out the history, and you'll see an IP has strong views on the topic that are at odds with the sources. Staggering that some people can't accept what published sources all say on the subject of an commonplace meal! - SchroCat (talk) 13:56, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Indeed this very afternoon I have had to revert - twice - an editor who didn't accept what the published sources, in this case the Oxford English Dictionary, say about the plural of "shrimp". Tim riley talk 15:36, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

That was meant as a light-hearted dispute about a trivial matter, and apologies if the spirit wasn't clear. "Shrimps" really does sound grating to my ears, but fine I guess if it sounds better to your ears. (And, no, citing the OED isn't definitive here.) CAVincent (talk) 16:07, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Apologies accepted, naturally, but it isn't a question of what "sounds right" to anyone's ears: it is what is correct that matters in Wikipedia. The Oxford English Dictionary is internationally recognised as the ultimate authority on the King's English, and so far as "shrimps" is concerned the OED's entry is corroborated by the Chambers, Collins and Encara/Bloomsbury dictionaries. It goes without saying that had the article been written in AmE we should heed such as Merriam Webster – which, well, well well, gives priority to "shrimps" but also admits "shrimp" as the plural of the crustacean. Tim riley talk 17:13, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Ireland

Hello all, I noticed that this article is in multipel categories of Irish cuisine, but it;s not supported in the body of the article. Indeed, the body claims it is British and French. -- NotCharizard ^🗨 11:13, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

Recommend you read the whole article and then you will see why someone has added the Irish category. Tim riley talk 17:48, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

Edit warring

Chaosdruid, perhaps you could stop edit warring long enough to discuss the matter, rather than try and force your personal belief onto the page. As it stands the article reflects numerous reliable sources that you are going against. - SchroCat (talk) 17:46, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

Quite! Extraordinary how many drive-by editors think their personal prejudices outweigh the reliable sources represented in this article. At least the most recent incursion has been reasonably literate, though still entirely wrong. Tim riley talk 17:54, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

As you know, I am not edit warring.

It is a fact that these are different dishes, not a personal belief - one of lamb and one of beef. It does not matter whichever name is used, what matters is that these are, in fact, two separate dishes with multiple names used for both of them.

I am not sure why someone would think it is a prejudice - and it is not entirely wrong. If these were placed for testing, someone would ask "which dish did you prefer, the lamb or beef?"

How can it be possible that I am incorrect? Chaosdruid (talk) 18:48, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

1. Yes, you are edit warring, rather obviously.

2. Shepherds Pie can be made with either beef or lamb. We’re talking about the dish “shepherds pie”, as a concept, not a series of dishes for tasting. - SchroCat (talk) 18:55, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

It would help, dear edit-warrior, if you were to read the whole article – only 745 words, which I'm sure you can probably manage. You will then see from the table that whatever one calls the dish it can be made with several different meats according to the preference of the cook. Tim riley talk 19:02, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

So NOT cottage pie, or the french version then? Just shepherds ... The fact that there are two variants, with three names means it's just one thing then, of course.

Just love the nonsense round here from people who obviously can't even be civil. Chaosdruid (talk) 21:46, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

Sorry you’re unable to accept you’re in the wrong here. And yes, edit warring really is uncivil, but I’m sort sure why you did so much of it before being dragged to the talk page. - SchroCat (talk) 22:14, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

It would help, Chaosdruid, if you were to read the article. You will then see that whatever one calls the dish it can be made with several different meats according to the preference of the cook. So the dish can be made with beef or lamb and be referred to as shepherd's pie, with mutton, beef or pork and referred to as cottage pie, with beef, lamb, duck, veal and referred to as hachis Parmentier. The many editors who have worked on this page are not so illogical as to imagine that a dish of minced beef with a potato topping and called shepherd's pie is not the same dish as one of minced beef with a potato topping and called cottage pie or hachis Parmentier. It would also be useful if you would withdraw the accusations of incivility: there is nothing uncivil in what SchroCat or I have told you, above. Tim riley talk 08:11, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

SchroCat - You need to re-read the definition of edit warring, it is certainly disingenuous of you to suggest that is what was going on.

Timriley - It was certainly uncivil to say that: 1. I did not read the article; 2. I was edit warring; 3. Obvious plurality is singularity; 4. I was a "drive-by editor"; 5. Claim that a fact is simply me "forcing a personal belief"; 6. That I have a prejudice when it is obvious that there is an entrenchment of "oh no, another person saying cottage and shepherds are different things"

Now, let's get back to improving wiki instead of this nonsense. Chaosdruid (talk) 18:38, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

Oh joy. I thought this waste of time and pot-stirring had died a death... (I am well aware of the definition of edit warring, and yes, that's what you were doing; there was nothing disingenuous in describing your behaviour as such) - SchroCat (talk) 19:01, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

Dear, oh dear, oh dear! I too hoped this nonsense had ceased. But despite all the other wonderfully, bizarrely false statements s/he has made, we can surely agree with Chaosdruid that s/he should get back to improving Wiki(pedia), preferably on articles away from this. Tim riley talk 19:10, 9 March 2025 (UTC)